Defeat Penalties: TLDR version

If you complain about rewards in mmorpg games "Success is it's own reward, I don't need this gold or XP or gear! It can just say I win and that's enough!" AND if at the same time you complain about penalties in mmorpg games "Failure is it's own penalty, I don't need to lose gold or XP!" then your cool. You really do like just doing some individual challenge in the game, and don't care about advancing yourself in the larger picture of the game.

But if you like accepting the advancement in the games larger picture, but complain about a larger picture setback...this is just complaining about losing while being all for it if you gain.

Defeat is the penalty; we don't have to penalize you a second time.

And guildwars 2 will be trying to cater to you. On something I'm not sure can ever be adequately satisfied - wherever there is a potential for advancement, it casts a shadow. Which is the potential not to aquire that advancement and fall backward instead. You can't be satisfied until advancement does not exist, for the shadow it casts (Ie, I went backward! It's a penalty!!!).

Ohhh, poetic!

I think there are better penalties than simply guiding a character along for X amount of minutes. I can't find it now, but another blogger was suggesting fighting your way out of death (and if you can't even manage that, default to the jog of shame). The death jog is a bit like the jumping level in a FPS - a jarring change of core gameplay. Except jumping levels atleast require some skill.

Defeat penalties - a peace offering middle ground which will no doubt not be enough

Tesh has made a post about a line I looked at awhile ago with Guild Wars 2 : Death and other inconveniences

Okay, I had an idea, but honestly I suspect until a full on explorationist agenda is supported by games with no real trace of play to win, it wont satisfy. Ironically the explorationists wont be happy until the play to wins are driven before them and they hear the lamentations of their womens. I'll describe it anyway.

Something like if you go for ten minutes and kill X number of monsters in that time all without being defeated or dying, you get $$$ bonus gold. Fail = don't. Actually that's a little like the optional extra challenges you can take on in doofus, if you've ever read about them.

But I suspect it'll still be taken as a penalty, as the person who is defeated isn't having taken gold away, but they are missing out on extra gold. And aren't we all being a bit limited in our view by having (any) play to win challenge?